Garrett's First Negative

Welcome, brothers and sisters in Christ, ladies and gentlemen, my friend Mr. Donahue. We are here to discuss the eternal security of a believer. I am here to "give a reason of the hope that I have in Christ," based on I Peter 3:15. We are all under apostolic command to “examine” ourselves whether we are “in the faith,” II Cor. 13:3, and to “prove all things” (I Thess. 5:21). We are not here for any personal victories, as Pat said.

Now I don’t have to prove anything. Presumption in debate is with the negative. Pat must therefore prove his proposition by the Scriptures. It will be my duty to show that the Scriptures he cites, and the interpretations he gives to them, do not teach his proposition as he imagines. I will also offer counter arguments, that if true, will refute the validity and truthfulness of Pat’s proposition.

Now, let me talk about definitions. I insist that Pat define what it means to be born again, to be regenerated, to become a Christian. I firmly believe that if he understood what it means to be born again, regenerated, that he would not be taking the position that he does relative to whether such can lose salvation. I will, therefore, since he did not, define these terms from the Scriptures. Those who are saved, born again, regenerated, made new creatures in Christ, have been given certain gifts, as part of their calling. In regeneration God gives to, or creates in sinners, certain qualities and attributes. These they receive and continually possess. Among these necessary and precious gifts are,

1. The Divine Nature (II Peter 1:4)
2. The Love of God (Romans 5:5)
3. The Knowledge of God and Christ (Matt. 11:27)
4. Faith (Philippians 1:29)
5. Repentance (II Tim. 2:25)

They are given the gift of 6. Perseverance (Luke 8:15). They are given the gift of a 7. Steadfast hope (I John 3:3) And finally the gift of 8. Truth itself (I John 2:27)

Thus, a man who, is regenerated, has a nature that guarantees its perseverance and ultimate triumph, a nature and conversion that cannot be reversed.

Now, I exclude, from the definition, all hypocrites, pretenders, presumers, yea, all deceived and deluded souls. I exclude all wayside ground hearers. I exclude from the definition all shallow ground hearers, all thorny ground hearers. I also exclude from the definition all “false brothers” as Judas, Annanias, Simon Magus (that he brought up from Acts 8), the Judaizers, and such like. (See II Cor. 11:26 & Gal. 2:4).

In further defining what it means to be regenerated and born again, I have these seven further characteristics:

1. A truly saved man is a man “possessed” by Christ and the Holy Spirit. He is as much controlled by Christ’s presence and Holy Spirit as a man possessed of a demon and evil spirit. Just as one possessed of Satan and his spirit, is enslaved to him (II Tim. 2:24), and so does the will of Satan, so one possessed of Christ and his Spirit, is enslaved to Christ and so does the will of Christ. As the slaves of sin and Satan “cannot cease from sin” (II Peter 2: 14), so those who are slaves to Christ and righteousness, “cannot cease” from following Christ or “cease from” righteousness.

Secondly, a truly saved man is “glued” to Christ, “attached” or “joined” to him in a manner that makes it impossible to become “unglued.” The meaning of the word “joined” in the Greek literally means “glued to.” We are “super glued” to Christ. Christians can say of Christ “I’m stuck on you,” and Christ can say to the believer, “I’m stuck on you.” There is a “bond” created between a believer and Jesus, in the new birth, that is more powerful than any bond in nature, be it natural as in the bonding of atoms, or in the social realm as a mother’s bonding with her baby. What God has “joined together” in Christ will not be “put asunder.” Through conversion we are “joined to Christ” (I Cor. 6:17), and as I said, the Greek word there has the sense of “glued.” The “bond” is strong and enduring.

Thirdly, a truly saved man is a man who is “addicted to” Christ. Men become addicted to sin; thus, it is said of them, that they “cannot cease from sin” – That they are “hooked on sin” as a man “hooked” on heroin. When one becomes addicted to Christ they are “hooked” on him and cannot but forever be devoted to him and forever realize their need of him each day. They, in a sense, get their “highs” and their “fixes” on Christ. Christ asked Peter and the apostles after the defection of some seeming disciples, “will you also go away?” Peter expressed his addiction to Christ, saying “To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” There is a popular song called “addicted to love.” Christians are addicted to the love of Christ, a love from which they shall never be separated. Just as there is in human behavior that which is called “compulsive behavior,” so there is too in the life of a Christian. He is "compelled" by the love and grace of Christ. So Paul says, “the love of Christ constrains us,” that is, it “compels” us (II Cor. 5:14)

We came into the realm of salvation initially by being “compelled,” and we are continuously "compelled." Luke 14:23 says that.

Number four, a truly saved man recognizes himself as clay in God’s hands, is a man who has God as his potter creating him into a “vessel of mercy.” He recognizes that all he becomes, in Christ is the sole work of the Potter and he can therefore claim no credit for any part of his salvation, nor for any good deed that he does. If (there’s an “if” statement. We will talk more about that), if we are “new creatures in Christ” (II Cor. 5:17), it is because “he has made us, and not we ourselves.” (Psalm 100:3)

Fifthly, by way of further definition, a saved man, a truly saved man, has in regeneration, a life and nature that is immortal and incapable of corruption. This is signified by the language the following scriptures.

I Peter 1:23 – “Being born again...of incorruptible seed, by the word of God.” And then, in I Peter 3:4 , Peter speaks of “that hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible.” And then finally in I John 3:9 the apostle John says, “whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him...” Grace in the heart is here represented as “incorruptible” and “abiding” and that which absolutely assures its possessor from a life of sin.

Regeneration thus produces a drastic change in a sinner’s heart and life. My opponent believes that regeneration is nothing but water baptism, an external rite, something that does not produce any inward or radical change.

In regeneration God imparts to the elect indestructible spiritual life, transforming the very nature and dispositions of their hearts. Since this spiritual life is indestructible, it means that regeneration is irreversible. Therefore, once regenerated, one cannot truly or finally turn away from God or denounce Christ. This means that all those who are regenerated will also persevere. Any doctrine that denies this contradicts the very meaning of regeneration.

All this is clear from rhetorical question in Romans 6:2; Pat, listen to this. “How shall we who died to sin, live any longer therein?” The obvious truth, being upheld by Paul, is the one I believe, which affirms that those who have undergone true regeneration cannot live in sin as they did before.

Sixthly, by way of further definition, a truly saved man is one who has received the “seed of the kingdom” “with an honest and good heart” in contradistinction to those, who in the parable of the sower, became only pretenders to true salvation. Lets read Luke 8, verses 12-15, if you have your Testaments. Jesus said “those by the wayside, are they that hear, then cometh the Devil and taketh away the word which was sown in their hearts lest they should believe and be saved.”

“They on the rock are they which, when they hear, receive the word with joy, and have no root (these have no root) in themselves, which for awhile believe, and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among thorns are they which when they have heard go forth and are choked with cares, and riches, and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. But (that is a word of contrast), but that on the good ground are they which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience (the Greek word here could be perseverance).” “With perseverance.” “With lastingness” if I can say that.

There are thus four kinds of hearers of the word or seed, in the parable of the sower. Only one of the four, however, heard the word savingly. Only one truly believed. The word was preached and only one was actually saved and regenerated, by that word. Only one had “a good and honest heart.” All the others did not have a “good and honest heart,” but were hypocrites, pretenders.

The only ones who quote, “fell away” (“stumbled,” some translations, or were “offended”), in the parable, were those who received the word without an “honest and good heart.” They were the ones who got “offended.” Such apostates are doomed to fail. They’re destined to be temporary in their professing faith. They’re absolutely certain to “fall away.” Why? Because they “began in the flesh” rather than “in the Spirit.” They did not receive the word with and “honest and good heart.” They did not receive the seed into the depth of the soul. They did not have “root” in the truth or “root in themselves.” They lacked something. Thus, they who are such, are only “seeming” Christians. I, therefore, equate, by way of definition, the term “good ground hearer,” with “regenerated” or “born again” Christian. Until he defines it differently, that’s the way its defined in the debate.

Now, not a single one of the “good ground hearers” failed to produce “good fruit” regularly and continually and none of them “fell away” or lacked saving understanding of the message.

Now let me talk to you about the New Testament epistles. The New Testament epistles were addressed, Pat, to all professing Christians. But, every writer of those New Testament epistles, clearly did not presume them all to be truly what they professed to be. I don’t think you really believe that. Not all the first converts were “good ground hearers.” All the members of the first New Testament churches were not all truly born again, or truly regenerated, or “good ground hearers.” This is clear in the epistles. If my friend Pat disagrees with this, let him tell us. The early church had hypocrites in them just like we do today. The Greek word “hupocrites” means “an actor under an assumed character.” In other words, a pretender, a fake or a fraud, or to use the words of Jesus, “wolves in sheep’s clothing”; Or, to use the words of Paul, “pseudo brothers.” The early church had “shallow ground hearers,” those who “believed for awhile and in time of temptation fell away.”

You say they can’t “fall away” unless they were truly saved to start with. Were those people really saved there in the parable? Tell us that, will you? For, they “fell away.” These did not receive the seed “with an honest and good heart,” for had they done so, they would have permanently believed. They would not have fallen away like the others. In time of temptation they would not have produced temporary fruit, fruit that soon withers and dies, but they would rather have brought forth “fruit with perseverance,” fruit that lasts and fruit that endures.

The exhortations to perseverance, to self judgment and examination, in the Scriptures, are designed to call all professing Christians to make sure that they are not “wayside,” “thorny ground” or “wayside hearers,” but make sure they are “good ground hearers,” to make sure they are truly saved.

Now that you are still in Luke 8, on the parable, look at verse 18. Jesus said, about the coming day of judgment, “whosoever has not, from him shall be taken even that which he seems to have.” Did you get that? People can lose, or have taken from them, what they only seemingly, or apparently have. They can possess things in their imaginations that are seemingly real to them, and these things can be taken away or lost. Their perceptions often become realities to those who are lost in sins. Why, the sinners in Isaiah 28:15 were “taking refuge in their lies.” People even received comfort from their delusions and things that are not real in themselves. This is important to understand, especially in view of the verses that Pat has introduced to prove that people are losing actual salvation, rather than losing seeming or apparent salvation. Some of those verses simply speak of the hypocrites having taken from them "that which they seem to have," as Luke 8:18 says, “take away from them that which they only seem or profess to have,” what they possess only in their dreams or imaginations, but not actually possess.

People therefore, Pat, may lose salvation seemingly, as in the parable. They may “fall from grace,” only apparently, not actually. People also will have their apparent or seeming “parts," or “names,” in the “book of life,” and in the holy city, in this manner “taken away.” Those who are truly in grace, who truly understand salvation by grace and the gospel of grace, will never be moved away from it. It is a lesson one cannot unlearn for the simple reason – God is the one that taught it to them. John 6:45 So Jesus says in Matthew 24:24 – “that is not possible,” Pat, “that the elect be deceived.” “Impossible,” he says.

Those who had become professing Christians, professed believers in salvation by the grace of God, had manifested, in the churches of Galatia, by their embracing a false gospel, of salvation by human works and human law keeping, that they had never had truly trusted in Christ alone for salvation.

Now lets look at I Cor. 9: 24-27 about “running to obtain the prize.” Now I admit that salvation, is viewed in that passage is view as a “prize” to be “won.” We do “win Christ.” (Phil. 3:8) How then (and I asked Pat this in the question I gave him before the debate) how then can salvation be both a “free gift” and a “prize” or “reward”? Brother and sister, the only way that you can reconcile this is by understanding that perseverance itself is the gift and work of God, the result of divine election. Many scriptures teach this and I will not be able to give but a tithe of them in this discussion. But, I must ask this question. Why, Pat, does one runner persevere and win the prize and another does not? Now, Pat gave me the answer. He says it’s the will of the sinner that ultimately makes the difference. Pat will ascribe the reason to the sinner himself, to his own will and power, rather than to God’s will and power alone, as do the Scriptures. It takes “stick-too-it-iveness,” if I can say that, to win any battle, to win any race, does it not? Who else but God can give this “stick-too-it-iveness”?

Now, lets go further. Paul asks, in I Cor. 4:7, to these same Corinthians, he says, “who makes you to differ from another? And what do you have that you didn’t receive," that is, from God? Now, you watch, throughout this discussion, and you’ll see that this whole issue comes down to that simple question. To what will each of us ascribe as being the ultimate reason for why we are saved and others are not? Why are we different from another in the matter of salvation and perseverance? Pat must say that the sinner himself makes the ultimate difference by his free will election of God and by his self-wrought salvation, by his own self-will, by his own power to run, and ultimately, not by God’s election, and by God’s omnipotent efforts. What made the difference in the runners?

Also, how do we harmonize Paul’s lesson here in I Corinthians 9 with what he said in Romans 9, where he says about salvation, “it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy”? So, we need to harmonize those passages. “Run that you may obtain” and Romans nine – “it is not of him who runs.” As I’ve said, I believe I have explained how the ultimate difference comes from the election. Now look at Philippians 2:13. This will help us out because it tells us there that “God works in us both to will and to do of God’s good pleasure.”

Isaiah 26:12 also says “for you Lord have wrought all our works in us.” That verse also shows that even our “running for the prize” is God’s work in us. Our “inner fuel,” call it “spiritual adrenaline,” or whatever, “spiritual stamina,” is what causes us to ultimately to persevere and win this race, obtain this prize. God creates, according to Phil. 2:13, the desire in people for the prize, then, to Phil. 2:13 and the other verses that I have cited. He brings about, not only the choice to pursue that prize, and gives the spiritual stamina necessary to run the race, but he actually gives those runners, the predestined runners, the power to obtain it. Think of how assured this victory is when you consider that Christ is the coach and trainer of every runner in this race. Christ has run this race before. And brother, with him in one’s corner, coaching and imparting all his skill and understanding, one can’t help but win the prize. Victory is assured. But alas, how few professing runners have Christ truly as their coach and trainer? All victory is God given. I Cor. 15:57. Why does one desire the prize and another does not? I answer, as does the Scripture, “the election has obtained it, and the rest were blinded.” (Rom. 11:7) Pat will not ascribe the reason to divine election. He can’t say “the election has obtained it” for the runner, and “the rest were blinded.”

Now, in Phil. 1:6 Paul shows us that all the parts or various aspects of salvation are all of God and his grace alone. Paul said, “he which hath begun a good work in you will complete it.” Thus, if we give God the credit for initiating us in the Christian race, we will expect him to push us forward in the race as our great coach and trainer in our corner, and so we can’t but help obtain the victory over our enemies, the world, the flesh, and Satan; And we cannot but help give him the credit for us obtaining the prize. Paul does not imply that he nor any truly regenerated, nor anyone whom God chose and predestined to receive this prize could fail to receive it. Paul did not doubt that some who had apparently entered the Christian race would be rejected, disapproved, not receive the incorruptible crown, or the prize, but he did not believe that he nor any of the truly elect would fail to win the prize. What does he say in the passage? “So fight I, not as uncertainly.” So, Paul was assured of what the result was going to be.

Now, about promise of erasure from the book of life in Rev. 3:5 and Rev. 22:19, let me add this other pertinent information to what I have already said about that. In Rev. 13:8 we read – “and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Rev. 17:8 – “The beast that you saw was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition and they shall wonder whose names were NOT written in the book of life from the foundation of the world when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”


Thus, the names of those written in the book of life were written from the foundation of the world, from eternity. No Pat, I don’t believe a person’s name is written in the book where they are born again. I believe they were written before the foundation of the world. And, for that reason, their names shall not be erased. Why would we think that God was up there in heaven writing and erasing seeing he wrote the names before the foundation of the world? Would he not at least wait till a man died, whether saved or lost, before he wrote his name down in the book and save himself all this erasing and writing? Pat, when does God write a man’s name down in the book of life? Tell us that.

Now, from the passages I just read, Rev. 13:8 & 17:8, it is clear that none of those who have their names written in the Lamb’s book of life go into the false religion of Antichrist. They all remain true to the religion of Christ. They all, therefore, overcome. Would it not be a part of the false religion of Antichrist, Pat, to “take away from the word of God”? The threats do not imply what Pat thinks they do, what he surmises. They don’t imply that any truly called or chosen will fail to persevere and continue. But their designed, as I said, to wake up false and deluded Christians, who think they are saved when they are not, that they might become truly saved, real Christians, and not mere hypocrites.

Now, let me talk about the “weak brethren perishing” in I Cor. 8 and Rom. 14 and concerning which I have the following points.

First, the “weak brothers” in the text, Pat, are not born again, regenerated, Christians nor are they even members of the church at Corinth or the church at Rome. That you might see this:

1. These “weak brothers” did not believe in “one God.” They didn’t believe in “one Lord,” or in “one Lord Jesus Christ,” but believed in polytheism, as is clear from I Cor. chapter 8 verses 5-8.

Next, Paul clearly addresses in the first and second persons, the Corinthian “strong” brethren, the Roman brethren.

Thirdly, Paul speaks of the “weak brothers” as not being part of these churches and speaks of them in the third person.

Fourthly, these “weak brothers” do not have “Christian knowledge.” Only the “strong” have the “knowledge” of the things enumerated in verses 5-8 of I Corinthians chapter 8. What does Paul say about the “weak brothers”? He says the “weak brothers with consciousness of the idol UNTIL THIS DAY eat it as a thing sacrificed to idols.”

Further, the text is telling us that Christ died, not for every weak brother, Pat, every idolater, but he died for these kinds of people, and so, our every effort should be towards their salvation also.

Seventh, obviously, Pat, the word “brother” in this chapter is not used to mean Christian brothers, but as “neighbor.” It is not uncommon in Scripture to call others “brother” who are not Christians. I think there is abundant reason to equate the word "brother” in this passage and in Romans 14 with the word “neighbor” or “fellow-citizen” or “comrade.” Does my opponent’s church have members that do not believe the things that the “strong brothers” believe inverses 5-8? Does he have weak members who do not believe that there is only “one God,” but who still believe there are “many gods” and “many lords”? Does he have weak members, weak brothers, in his church, that do not believe in “one Lord Jesus Christ,” but rather in “many lords”? Let him tell us that. Look at I Cor. 9 verses 19-22 if you want to get a definition of whether these “weak brothers” are saved or not. Look at it.

“For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant to all that I might gain the more...unto the Jews I became a Jew that I might gain the Jews...To the weak,” Pat, “I became as weak that I might save the weak.” There’s your “weak” brother! Your weak “neighbor” that is all the word “brother” means. I will continue with this and what I don’t get to now, addressed to in this speech, I will get to it in the next. How much time?

Thank you brethren.