Garrett's Second Negative

I want to pick up where I left off on I Corinthians 8. It’s appropriate because that’s where he ended. I will get to the Scriptures that I didn’t get to in my first speech. Pat did not address a lot of the things I said in ending about I Corinthians 8. He didn’t tell us whether any of his members of the church do not believe the things in I Corinthians 8. I want you to look at your Bible with me. Let us look at this. Paul says, in I Cor. chapter 8, starting in verse four,

“As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice to idols” (by the Pagans) “we know...” We know, who’s the “we” Pat? Is that the “strong” and the “weak” brothers in that “we” or is it just the “strong brothers”? Just the “strong brothers”? (Pat audibly answers here) Okay, let’s read that. “We,” strong brothers, that’s Paul and the Corinthians he’s writing to, right? “We” (Paul and the Corinthians), “we know,” he is saying all the Corinthians are strong brothers. When he says “we know this,” he is saying every Corinthian is a strong brother.

“As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, WE KNOW that an idol is nothing in the world.” The Pagans don’t know that! “WE know,” the Corinthians, Paul knows, “that there is none other God but one.” The Pagans don’t know that!

“For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or earth, as there be gods many and lords many” (that is, to the Pagans) “BUT to US” (that’s a contrast!), “but to us” who I’m writing to (Paul and the Corinthians), “to us,” not to the “weak brother” outside the Corinthian church. “To US there is one God, the Father, of whom are all the things.” The Pagans don’t believe this. “To US there is one Lord Jesus Christ and we in him.” The Pagans don’t believe this. Watch verse seven.

“Howbeit there is not in everyone that knowledge.” Does he mean everyone in the Corinthian Church? Is that what he means? That’s what you believe. He believes Paul is saying, “Howbeit, you Corinthians, there is not in everyone in the church at Corinth this knowledge that there is one God, one Lord Jesus Christ.” So, if he is trying to say that these “weak brethren” are in the church at Corinth, the church at Corinth took them knowing that they did not believe in "one God and one Lord Jesus Christ."

He can say “brothers” up there means that they are regenerated, but it doesn’t. Brother Pat, or Pat (I will call you “brother” in the sense of “neighbor” here, okay, just like the passage here), when Paul addressed his lost brethren – “My heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, my brothers according to the flesh,” was he addressing them as saved? Did you address that in I Cor. 9 when he said, “I became weak that I might GAIN the weak”? That sort of identifies what he means by “weak brethren” doesn’t he? Let’s go on in I Cor. 8.

He’s giving you the Christian creed. Here’s what strong brothers believe. “One God,” “one Lord Jesus Christ”! The “weak brother” doesn’t believe this. Did you answer the question – I said “Pat tell us, down there in Huntsville, Alabama “Church of Christ,” do you take people in who don’t believe in "one God"? You do if you identify these “weak brothers” as not believing these things. Now, look here.

“Howbeit there is not in everyone that knowledge,” again, tell me Pat, does he mean everyone in the world or everyone in the church? I say its everyone in the world. “There is not in everyone that knowledge,” that Christian knowledge, “for SOME,” not “SOME in the church,” but “SOME out here in the world,” but “SOME with conscience of the idol UNTIL THIS HOUR,” --is he talking about people in the church who “until this hour” keep eating this, recognizing that this food is unto this god, unto this idol god? That’s what his view is. And watch this.

“For some with conscience of the idol,” not “some” in the church, but “some” outside the church, “with conscience of the idol eat it UNTO THIS HOUR as a thing offered to an idol and THEIR CONSCIENCE,” that’s third person – he did not say “YOUR conscience.” See? He is in the third person. “And their conscience, being weak, is defiled.” And again, “weak” is defined in I Cor. 9. Watch this, verse 8.

“But food commends us not to God.” Who is it that recognizes and understands that? These “weak brethren” don’t. Do you take brethren into your church, weak brothers, who think that their food is going to approved unto God? Apparently he does. But Paul says, “but food commends us not to God.” We Christians know that. It doesn’t do that. Pagans have not come to that understanding yet. He’ll take them into the church though. Their good weak Pagan brothers.

“For neither if we eat are we better; neither if we ear not are we the worse. But take heed, lest by any means, this liberty of yours,” you Corinthians, you strong brothers, “become a stumblingblock” to your weak neighbor, your weak Pagan brother, who you used to go to the idol temple with on Thursday nights till you became a Christian, but they are still your neighbor. It’s just like Paul addressed his lost Jewish brothers as "brothers" so that he could endear himself to them. So these good Corinthian Christians who were once Pagan, went to the temple lodge together on Thursday, they still said “brother” in the sense of “neighbor,” saying “you need to quit worshiping idols, you need to quit thinking that this food is going to somehow commend you to God.” You know, like the Catholics, they think eating the food is going to bring them to God. Anyway, let’s go on.

Look at I Cor. 10. Because he takes up three chapters here talking about this subject. In chapter 10, verse 25.

“Whatever is sold in the shambles that eat.” Talking to the Corinthians, right? “Eat, asking no question for conscience sake, for the earth is the Lord’s and the fulness thereof. If any of them that believe not,” Pat, “invite you to a feast, and you be disposed to go,” you know, your temple neighbor, who still worship as Pagans, “whatever is set before you eat, asking no question for conscience sake. But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice to idols, eat not for his sake that showed it, and for conscience sake, for the earth is the Lord’s and the fulness thereof.”

Now watch verse 29. “Conscience I say, not your own,” not you Corinthians, you strong brothers, but of the other, “for why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience?” Did you notice here it’s the unbelievers that are called “weak brothers.”

Now, let’s go to Romans 14, because its talking about the same thing, their also called “weak brothers” in Romans chapter 14. Let’s first of all look at how Romans chapter 14 is sandwiched in between two verses that talk about “neighbors.” Look at Romans 13:10. He says:

“Love worketh no ill to his NEIGHBOR.” Now look at Romans 15 verses 1 & 2.

“We then who are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak,” your weak Pagan neighbors, “and not to please ourselves,” so he says “let everyone of us please his NEIGHBOR.” So here in the end of Romans 13 –“neighbor.” Romans 15 – “neighbor,” used as the word “brother” in Romans 14. I say, Pat, it means “neighbor,” the word “brother.” And, if you don’t agree with that, then you take members into your church that don’t believe the creed in I Cor. 8, verses 5-8.

Now also, look at verse 7 of Romans 14. Paul says,

“For none of us lives to himself, and no man dies to himself.” God does not intend that we live as hermits away from the world but that we engage the world and seek to do what we can to “build up our neighbors.” This is said as a statement therefore of our dutiful relations to our neighbors generally, our ,b>“brothers.”,/b> Just like, you know, over in Russia, they call each other “comrade,” or “brother.” Black people – “brother,” you know? Paul did that with his lost Jewish people, “brother,” you know? Now look at verses 10-12. Paul said,

“Why do you judge your brother,” your neighbor? “Why do you set at nought your brother? For WE shall all stand,” – Who’s the “we”? Does he mean just “we Corinthians,” Pat, when he says “we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ”? “For it is written, as I live, saith the Lord, every knee,” that means every neighbor, every brother, “shall bow the knee and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, so then everyone of US,” who is the “us” Pat? If you’re going to define this, as you are, making it just the Corinthians, then only Christians are going to be judged. But he says “everyone of US,” meaning “everyone of us in the world.” By “we” and “everyone of US,” Paul does not intend Christians only. Obviously he’s using the term “brother,” as I said, in the sense of “neighbor” seeing he’s using it in the wider context of all men. Compare Jesus’ use of the word “brother” as “neighbor” in a verse I think he even quoted, not I quoted it, Jesus said, “whosoever is angry with his brother, without a cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whosoever shall say to his brother RACA shall be in danger of the council.” Well, is that just talking about our "brothers" in the church? Or, is he talking about our "brother" out here in Adam?

When Christ said in Matthew 7 verse 5, “Hypocrite, cast out the beam out of your own eye, then you shall see clearly to cast the mote out of your BROTHER’S eye.” “Brother” means “neighbor” there. If you don’t believe that, then you’re restricting the casting out of motes only from your Christian brother’s eyes but nobody else.

Now look at verse 23 of Romans 14. “He that doubteth is damned if he eat.” Now, we heard a lot on that, didn’t we? For what does he say about that "weak brother," Pat, who is being damned by eating things sacrificed to idols? Because they believed in these idol god! They believed in “many gods,” so it says here that “he that doubts,” that is, that Pagan neighbor, “is damned if he eat.” Why Pat? “Because “he eats NOT OF FAITH.” Brothers, let’s just close the doors and go home. I mean, it clearly says these people don’t have faith! How could you make these “brothers” regenerated children of God? Isn’t that in the definition? But he says right here “because he does not eat from faith.” He doesn’t have faith! Don’t you have to have faith to be a child of God? He says “whatsoever is not of faith is sin,” so what they are doing they are doing without faith! And yet he says they are born again! You see, these brethren, in I Cor. 8 and Romans 14. So here, it is clear, these “weak brothers” are weak Pagan friends, weak neighbors of the Corinthian Christians, and such as did not have faith in Christ. They had beliefs. They had a religion obviously, being in some ways “god fearers,” and devout men, yet they did not have the “faith” of Christians, the faith of salvation. It’s clear that these “brothers” did not have “faith” and this was the cause of their sin. These “weak brothers” mostly resemble, don’t they, the “wayside hearers” and those others in the parable? Paul had his unsaved Jewish brothers, who he could also call “weak brothers,” not because they denied there was “one God,” but because they denied the Lord Jesus Christ. So they were “weak” too, in a different sense than Pagans, but still “weak.”

Now, look at verse 4. I’m going to read to you verse 4 from the New King James Version. Paul says, “who are you to judge another man’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, HE WILL BE MADE TO STAND, for God is able to make him stand.” Brothers, we could just shut the doors right now and go home for that’s what I believe and I firmly believe Pat does not believe this verse. Here he says, “to his own master he stands or falls, yea he,” the servant of the Master, Christ, “will be made to stand”! “For God is able to make him stand”! Now Pat reads that and says “for he shall be made to stand for the sinner will make himself to stand.” That’s what he believes. But he says, “he SHALL BE MADE to stand FOR GOD IS ABLE to make his stand.” So, he puts the responsibility upon God to make him stand. Now you deal with that Pat.

Also, a kindred verse on this is II Cor. 1:21, 22, Paul says, “Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us and set his seal of ownership upon us and put his Spirit in our hearts, as a deposit, GUARANTEEING what is to come.” (NKJV)

Now about converting the “erring brothers.” In James 5:19,20 the verse does not say that any truly regenerated child of God will fail to be converted. It does not say that. You can read that verse as long as you want, it does not say that. In the case of “brothers,” who show by their apostasy that they were only shallow ground hearers or thorny ground hearers. Those who are truly saved become the means God will use to truly convert the deluded brothers from their errors and sins, error and sin that will bring eternal death. In the case of those who are true brothers, they will often be kept from losing salvation, being preserved by the means of other brothers whom God will be faithful to send.

Notice I John 2:19. John says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us, for had they been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out that it might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” So, apply that to this passage here in James. These brethren “went out from us but they were not of us, for had they been of us, they would have continued with us.”

Let me say one thing really quickly about the parable of the sower. Brother, he did not get to one tenth of my definitions so my definitions of what it means to be regenerated stand. But, if I heard him rightly, he does not believe that only the good ground hearers were the only ones that were regenerated. So, he’s got these shallow ground hearers regenerated but they don’t even have a good and honest heart. Why? Because it says “they believed for awhile.” The Hardshells do the same thing on this parable. You know the Hardshells and this man’s group, historically known as “Campbellites,” they both have gone into error on the parable of the sower, brother. He cannot make those shallow ground hearers who “believed for awhile and then FELL AWAY” good ground hearers! You cannot do it! Did they have a good and honest heart or not? Because when he says “BUT they that received seed on good ground” implies the others did not have good and honest hearts. Can you be saved without a good and honest heart? Were those shallow ground hearers who believed for awhile, were they saved without that good and honest heart? I don’t believe they were saved. Now, the devils believe and tremble. Just to get up and say, hey they “believed for awhile” and that proves they were regenerated. Brother, I don’t believe that, I’ve never believed that. If that’s true the devils are going to be saved.

Now, getting to Hebrews 3:12 where he talks about Paul telling the Hebrews “take heed brethren,” let me read from the NIV here, “See to it brothers that none of you has a sinful unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.” This is an exhortation for the Hebrews to search their own hearts, to make sure first that they are not shallow ground, wayside, or thorny ground hearers, but that they have truly trusted Christ alone for salvation. Second, they should be careful not to let the slightest unbelief to enter into their hearts. Yes, we all as Christians, fail to believe as we ought, stumbling as did the disciples whom Christ “rebuked for their unbelief and slowness of heart to believe all that the prophets had written.” And, many Christians daily come to Christ saying “Lord, I believe, help my unbelief.” Christ does hear such prayers. Constant watchfulness by all Christians is not something unheard of in churches that believed in “once saved always saved.” Brother, we admonish our members to persevere. God will finish his work. He will see to it that his servants persevere. He will effectually keep and discipline them see that they are progressively sanctified.

Now, about the Vine and the Branches in John 15. Again, this figure calls our attention back to the parable of the sower and the seed. Brother, that definition is going to hold throughout this debate. Take that as your criteria and the debate is over. If you remember, the shallow ground hearers did produce some fruit initially. Yet, they were never truly joined or glued to Christ, never really or truly in the true vine. Only the good ground hearers, Pat, were saved or born again and vitally connected to Christ. There are dead branches in the vine that produce only “withering fruit” and they are shallow ground hearers. Notice also that Jesus says that “no branch is ABLE TO BRING FORTH FRUIT OF ITSELF”! What does he believe? Why the man wins the race of himself. He bears fruit of himself. It all goes back to the man, his will power, his inner abilities. Brother, there are dead branches in the vine and yet we got some branches in the vine that seemingly are connected to Christ and not bearing more fruit. Brother, they are imposters. First of all, how could you be a Christian without bearing fruit? Isn’t faith a “fruit of the Spirit”? Isn’t love? Isn’t repentance? Well, how could they be in the vine without repenting, without believing? So, apparently, they got in without even doing that! So they were imposters. Interestingly, did you know the term “dried up” in John 15, about these branches, is the exact same term found in the parable of the sower in Mark 4: 5,6 where Christ said, “other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil, and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil and when the sun had risen it was scorched, and because it had not root, it WITHERED AWAY”? That’s the same word. It withered, it dries up, so those in the vine in John 15, what are they showing by “drying up”? Showing they weren’t good ground hearers, that they weren’t regenerated. The branch’s ability, Pat, to do what it is designed to do, that is, bear fruit, is totally and completely contingent upon another, that one being the Vine. The life giving sap flows from the vine to the branches resulting in the creation of fruit.

I will pick off where I left off in my next time, give Pat your attention.